TAKASUGI Shinji ("surname first - Japanese way") has, alongside a Teach Yourself Japanese site and a number of Japanese-language ones (all linked from his home page), a fascinating Number Systems of the World page that includes 60 languages, ranked in order of complexity. At the top is Nimbia (a dialect of the Nigerian Chadic language Gwandara), which uses a duodecimal system (gwom 10, kwada 11, tuni 12, tuni mbe da [12 and 1] 13, tuni mbe bi [12 and 2] 14; gume kwada ni kwada [(12 x 11) and 11, using a different word for 'twelve'] 143, wo [122] 144); at the bottom is Tongan ("Tongan has definitely the simplest number system in the world": eleven is 1,1; ninety-nine is 9,9; &c), with many interesting languages along the way (including Polari!). (Via MzB at AskMeFi.)
[Dumb typo fixed due to vigilance of eagle-eyed correspondent: thanks, John!]
Posted by languagehat at September 10, 2004 03:29 PMI wonder sometimes about the effects that different naming systems might make people think about themselves and their relationship to 'the world', and would be interested to know if there's any modern research into this, or online resources? Where family name comes before personal name as in the Japanese case, is one example; another very different one is the system of patronymics still in use in sixteenth and seventeenth century Wales - where you would get individuals with strings of names (a son/daughter of b son of c etc - recording to the great-great-great-grandfather in documents is not that rare, especially in the 16th century.) The Welsh in that period were known (and derided) for their 'obsession' with genealogy; the recorded naming patterns suggest that this was certainly not confined to the gentry, with their elaborate family trees.
Posted by: Sharon at September 11, 2004 06:19 PMSame is true of Iceland, where people are still (if I'm correct) identified as "X son/daughter of Y."
Posted by: language hat at September 11, 2004 08:01 PMI find it interesting that Swiss-French uses fully decimal system, unlike French French. :-) I wonder what are the cultural-historical reason behind it (influence of German?).
(Swiss-French also uses a keyboard layout that is much closer to the American English layout than French keyboard.)
Speaking of Iceland, I had a couple of Icelandic friends in college. One had a traditional patronym (his name was Sigurðer Flossison, his father was Flossi Sigurðerson, and so they went for generations); the other had a "family name" (Borg). I asked Oskar why he had a family name rather than a patronym, and he said that a great-grandfather had emigrated to France and started a business under the name Borg, which then became a family name when they returned to Iceland. Apparently, a small minority of Icelanders have family names, usually due to emigration or immigration in the past.
He told me that Iceland maintained two phone directories: A small one for people with family names, arranged alphabetically by surname, and a main directory for traditional patronyms, alphabetically by given name, and then broken down by patronym.
I believe that traditionally, the eldest son takes his grandfather's name, so you get these "cyclic" names, like Siggi and his dad.
We were drinking college-style at the time we discussed this, so consider it hearsay until independently verified. Where are the Icelandic language-hatters?
Posted by: HP at September 13, 2004 01:40 PM