We've been out spending New Year's Eve with the kids and grandkids, and I'm too replete and tuckered out to do any fancy posting, so I'll just point you towards Mark Liberman's roundup of the history of Urdu (word and language) and wish you all a very happy 2008!
Posted by languagehat at December 31, 2007 09:02 PMHappy new year, hat and everybody else!
Posted by: bulbul at December 31, 2007 10:23 PMHappy new year to you too!
Posted by: mj at January 1, 2008 11:24 AM"Ordo", etc., is also found in Mongol and might either be a Mongol borrowing from Turkish or a Turkish borrowing from Mongol. I actually would be able to settle that question if I was with my books. The "Ordos" at the bend of the Yellow River is from the same root.
I believe that the "hoard" / "horde" confusion contaminates our understanding of the word "horde", since a "hoard" is thought of as a heap or shapeless pile of gold, silver, and jewels. But the Mongol horde's primary advantage over the Muslim and European armies it faced was its far superior organization. Chinggis Qan was an institutional reformer and the Mongols were efficiency experts.
Posted by: John Emerson at January 1, 2008 01:19 PMI believe that the "hoard" / "horde" confusion contaminates our understanding of the word "horde", since a "hoard" is thought of as a heap or shapeless pile of gold, silver, and jewels.
Would surprise me, because in German Horde has the same meaning as in English, while the (nowadays obsolete) cognate to hoard is Hort, which ends in a loud, unambiguous [t] (and has the same meaning as in English, except that there's a connection to "storage").
No idea why the h first shows up in Polish.
Posted by: David Marjanović at January 2, 2008 06:32 PMAnother interesting read, thanks LH! Urdu was the language my Dad learned at boarding school near Rawalpindi in the late 30s and early 40s, and even though I'm learning Hindi, the beauty and poetry of Urdu, and the fact that the language is written in the right direction does appeal to me. I think your article has finally tipped me over the edge and convinced me that I must get hold of Platt's dictionary.
Posted by: Stuart at January 4, 2008 04:47 PMYou know it's available online, right?
Posted by: language hat at January 4, 2008 06:22 PMYes, I've used the online version a bit, but I've found the reproduction a little unclear at times. Plus a language as beautiful as Urdu deserves the tactile richness of old-fashioned paper, imo.
Posted by: Stuart at January 4, 2008 09:54 PMI don't disagree—I love my paper edition! Just wanted to make sure you knew.
Posted by: language hat at January 4, 2008 10:26 PM