Looking up something else in my Merriam-Webster, I ran across ridley, the name of two varieties of sea turtle. What struck me was the conjunction of the etymology and the date, respectively "unknown" and 1926. There are lots of words with unknown etymologies, of course, but you'd think that recent a word would not be a total mystery. Wikipedia, in its Kemp's Ridley article, says:
These turtles are called Kemp's Ridley because Richard Kemp (of Key West) was the first to send in a specimen of the species to Samuel Garman at Harvard. However, the etymology of the name "Ridley" itself is still in question. Prior to the term being popularly used (for both species in the genus), L. kempii at least was known as the "bastard turtle".I wonder if the OED will turn up anything more when it gets to this word in its ongoing revision? Posted by languagehat at December 15, 2009 11:55 AM
Ever an ardent friend to sea fauna, let me be the first to jump in on a topic about which I know nothing... There's an interesting discussion of the name in the Marine Turtle Newsletter, found here:
http://www.seaturtle.org/mtn/archives/mtn58/mtn58p10b.shtml
It suggests that "ridley turtle" is derived from "riddle turtle" (admittedly, hard to say), the riddle being where it bred (hence the alternate name, bastard turtle).
May be true, may be folk etymology -- but even turtle specialists do not know.
Posted by: Cherie Woodworth at December 15, 2009 12:11 PMThe OED2's first quotation says:
1942 A. F. CARR in Proc. New England Zool. Club XXI. 8, I believe that a change in the non-technical designation of kempii is indicated. Some time ago..Stewart Springer...told me of a species of sea turtle, known locally as the ‘ridley’, which was recognized as distinct by the natives of the Keys.
"Known locally" sounds to me as if ridley is of long standing in the (future) Conch Republic, but was made known to the wider community only in the 20th century, though I suppose it's conceivable that it means "known since 1926".
The OED also quotes the EB on the etymology of bastard turtle: "stemming from the mistaken belief that it is the offspring of a green turtle and a logger-head".
Posted by: John Cowan at December 15, 2009 01:53 PMSomeone on Pharyngula is bound to know.
Believe it or not.
Posted by: Sili at December 15, 2009 04:38 PM...the riddle being where it bred...
What does 'the riddle' mean in this context, please ?
Posted by: Paul at December 16, 2009 06:08 AM"riddle" sounds suspiciously like a folk etymology
Posted by: Hadur at December 16, 2009 06:33 AMOff topic: I'd love to see what linguists here say about this: What English sounds like to foreigners.
Posted by: John Emerson at December 16, 2009 10:07 AMWhat does 'the riddle' mean in this context
Mystery.
Merriam Webster:
Pronunciation: \ˈri-dəl\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English redels, ridel, from Old English rǣdelse opinion, conjecture, riddle; akin to Old English rǣdan to interpret — more at read
Date: before 12th century
1 : a mystifying, misleading, or puzzling question posed as a problem to be solved or guessed : conundrum, enigma 2 : something or someone difficult to understand
There is also a phrase "riddle me this" that gets some 2 million ghits, but for some reason it's something I associate with either Appalachian or British usage. There yet another meaning for riddle as a verb: "1 : to separate (as grain from chaff) with a riddle : screen 2 : to pierce with many holes 3 : to spread through : permeate "
Posted by: Nijma at December 16, 2009 12:20 PM[Slaps head] I misunderstood Cherie Woodworth's use of riddle - the riddle being where it bred as being the location (a local name for sandbars or cays or so forth) where the turtles bred, rather than meaning it was a puzzle where they bred.
There are so many arcane names for maritime features ...
Posted by: Paul at December 16, 2009 02:40 PMWhat is that creatures, Ridley? I'm trying to search the image. I found to possible result first turtle and the last a creature like pterodactyl.
Posted by: jasonflops at December 17, 2009 02:03 AMO: No, but I constantly re-read it...
As well as Graham Greene, if I may hazard a guess?
Posted by: Nijma at December 17, 2009 04:25 PMarcane names for maritime features
Remembering that another meaning of "riddle" is a screen for separating grain, I skimmed the OED to see if there wasn't a maritime usage as well. I didn't find one, although I did find the information that in the Scottish and north dialect, "turning the riddle and shears" was a mode of divination for the discovery of theft.
Scanning the entries I did find an entry for the archaic "ridel", and its variation "rydely" [a. OF rideler, f. ride wrinkle, fold], which unlike "riddle" has only one d.
While "ridley" is supposed to be a noun, the creature is also called "Kemp's ridley turtle" which makes it sound more like an adjective.
Could this name be a way of identifying the turtle as being more wrinkled than other turtles, that is, "Kemp's wrinkly turtle"?
Posted by: Nijma at December 18, 2009 12:22 AMAccording to Harold A. Dundee, writing in Marinte Turtle Newsletter in 2001, the etymology of "ridley" was still a riddle:
http://www.seaturtle.org/mtn/archives/mtn58/mtn58p10b.shtml
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