ə-GAH-pay. USA, midwest/Ohio valley.
Posted by HP at June 27, 2005 01:27 PMI forgot to answer part two. I'm not sure any particular pronunciation fits the title. It seems to be a purely visual title, one which doesn't read well at all.
I don't suppose "a gay pee" is an option?
Posted by HP at June 27, 2005 02:08 PMI've heard the same in California.
From a little Googling, looks like the Greek is αγάπη, and since eta is pronounced i in modern Greek, the "pee" ending is not necessarily just an Anglicism.
Posted by caffeind at June 27, 2005 02:10 PMYeah it is -- they're not pronouncing it according to modern Greek (which very few Englishmen, including and perhaps especially classicists, have ever learned) but according to traditional anglicized Latin, courtesy of the Great Vowel Shift. The "ee" sound in agape is there for the same reason it's in meet.
Posted by language hat at June 27, 2005 04:52 PMI just want to give LH high marks for mentioning Gaddis. He has a fearsome reputation. I have yet to read The Recognitions or Agape Agape, but I would encourage people to take a look at JR or Carpenter's Gothic. His novels may seem dense and forbidding at first but once you get used to fact that almost the entire story is told in dialogue, the effect is a little like listening to a radio play, and you may find yourself surprisingly well entertained. Gaddis actually had a pretty decent sense of humour.
Posted by vanya at June 27, 2005 05:00 PMI am living in the Netherlands and I am used to speaking Dutch, but it is not my maternal language. How I pronounce the Greek agape completely depends on the company I am with and the land I am in. In Greece simply aghápi when speaking Greek. Elsewhere gymnasium-style with gymnasiasts which is the Latinized stress accent, then the reconstructed classical Attic with real scholars (extremely few those), then a Dutch pronunciation in ordinary Dutch sounds and then a likewise reconstructed Coptic pronunciation when I speak Coptic, I make no difference here between Bohairic and Sahidic and the other dialects are too much in the dark. In the Netherlands I produce a differently sounding agape than in an English conversation, and again I of late have started to make an absolute difference between American sounding Amerenglish and Oxbridge. Like I like complexities like this.
Posted by Folquerto at June 27, 2005 06:04 PM['ægəpeI] with the un-English [eI] because I feel it's not naturalized; I treat it as a recent borrowing direct from Ancient Greek, like some other theological terms such as kairos or kerygma, where we simply anglicize the Greek pronunication* rather than fully naturalizing them via Latin and Middle English.
However, I find it was taken into English in 1696. The (old) OED still marked it with '||' for not naturalized, but gave the more English pronunciation ['ægəpi:]. This is how I'd pronounce it as the name of e.g. a nymph or city.
I don't know whether I've ever heard anyone pronounce it; I've been in company very rarely with people who might have occasion to. I'm not sure if my compromise is influenced by others. The modern Chambers dictionary also gives ['ægəpi:] alone, so that must be the 'standard' British pronunciation. I should switch to that.
* It would be hair-splitting to distinguish borrowings from Classical and NT. I agree it would be [a:'ga:peI] if we did so. The fact that the eta had probably moved up from [æ:] ~ [ε:] to [e:] by that time fortunately doesn't affect the nearest available English, or we would get really finicky.
Posted by aput at June 27, 2005 06:34 PMAs an albeit temporary professional proofreader I have to say that asterisk really makes that typo stand out gloriously, dammit.
Posted by aput at June 27, 2005 06:39 PMI'm Greek-Australian and was raised speaking Modern Greek.
Obviously whenever I look at the word, I can do nothing else but pronounce it as a-GA-pi. Anything else feels criminally incorrect to me.
The problem however is that this extends to a lot of other words that I know in Modern Greek. For instance, I can't say SO-crates, which seems to be the accepted manner of saying the word in English. Instead, it always comes out as so-CRA-tes because of Σωκράτης in Greek.
Then there's household kitchen items. I feel dirty saying things like oregano, and have actually made friends understand the Greek ρίγανη simply because in my mind, there is no other word that the herb can go by.
Apparently Aristotle developed his essentialism because of supposed mispronounciations.
And don't get me started about pronouncing Aristotle!
Posted by Antonios at June 27, 2005 07:41 PMΚολοκύθια με τη ρίγανη!
Posted by language hat at June 27, 2005 07:58 PMΓλώσσακαπέλε, τα γάϊδουρια κλάνουν.
Posted by Αντώνης at June 27, 2005 08:58 PMAnother vote for ə-GAH-pay ə-GAYP
And further to Vanya's comment above -- Gaddis is a fine writer in general but specifically, "Agape Agape" will blow your mind. The thing is a rhythmic whirlwind, very difficult to put down from the moment you start page 1. (I say this as someone who enjoyed "A Frolic of His Own" quite a bit but thought it was a little overdone, and who thinks he would have liked "JR" had he been able to keep at it.)
Posted by Jeremy Osner at June 27, 2005 09:34 PMThe voice of ignorance: in my head, at least (not sure I've ever said it out loud), I say AH-gə-pay. Of course, I was not paying attention when they tried to explain greek pronunciation back in high school. However I muddled through, it was certainly based on however one muddled through Latin, whose "rules" I also ignored at the time. This was high school in Boston, and our Greek teacher was Greek.
Posted by max at June 29, 2005 12:54 PM