Actually, the root words that you talk about here seem to me to have a different etymological origin. All of these words seem to revolve around the idea of field or plain in French and English: le champ - field, champignons - things that grow on field (mushrooms) campagne - the country, or a place with lots of fields, le champ de/du.. the field of/the scence of operations, where things take place
Posted by gregb1007 at April 23, 2006 03:26 PMActually, the root words that you talk about here seem to me to have a different etymological origin
One of the nice things about English is that one has the OED, and the random “actually … seem[s] to me” of other interested parties needs to overcome the citations that the OED provides if it is to be taken seriously. On that theme, you propose that the 14th-century Italian camera della Campagna, then used as a shipboard store-room was taken from "field or plain" ?
Posted by Aidan Kehoe at April 23, 2006 05:52 PMIn looking at some Dutch sources online, the usage of kampanje to indicate the poop deck goes back at least to the East-Indies trade and warships of that era in the 1600s. After that it continued to be used for the highest deck on a warship, even if that was the same height for the length of the ship. The raised poop deck was not necessarily in all ships a storage area for provisions; in the East Indies ships it housed the officers. In Dutch the company was called the Vereenigde Oostindiesche Compagnie -- so I'm wondering whether, since the "company" officers were up there, the crew started calling the place the "company" or kampanje.
In ships of the Middle Ages the raised poop seems to have had the function of a turretted tower on a castle during sea battles. In Dutch this was called the achterkasteel or rear castle. Sometimes it consisted of multiple decks. Gradually the voorkasteel (front castle) disappeared and the achterkasteel become known as the kampanje. Kampanje is also used today to mean campaign (political, advertising, military), but the preferred and vastly prevalent spelling for this is campagne.
There is mention that some of the East Indies company ships had gardens installed on the kampanje deck to grow a variety of greens used to combat scurvy (lending a little support to gregb's contention).
Posted by Martin at April 23, 2006 05:57 PMIt seems unlikely it's a complete coincidence that the Dutch word is so similar to a Romance word with a similar meaning. Occam's razor suggests the one was borrowed from the other.
Posted by language hat at April 23, 2006 06:16 PMMartin said:On that theme, you propose that the 14th-century Italian camera della Campagna, then used as a shipboard store-room was taken from "field or plain" ?
Yes, camera della campagna as a shipboard store room could have been taken from field or plain. field or plain could have been taken to mean space in general (fields and place are open space and contain a lot of space.) Its possible that orginally the meaning was field, was then abstracted to space, and then concept of space extended to storage space.
Posted by gregb1007 at April 23, 2006 06:20 PMSee
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=campaign
from Latin campus, field.]
->
Late Latin campnia, open country, battlefield,
->
French campagne,
Italian campagna, field, battlefield
(Sorry for posting this as another message - don't want to crowd up the comments - wish I could simply edit my last message and post this all in there. Feel free to delete the message above, if you wish)
Posted by gregb1007 at April 23, 2006 06:53 PMThe problem with your contention greg is that the Italian word cited is not campagna, but compagna. These are two different words, with different meanings.
Posted by nomis at April 23, 2006 10:49 PMNomis, your point well taken.. campus and com + panis are two different Latin root words.
However, I wouldn't agree with Martin that camera della campagne and Kampanje in the sense of campaign (marketing or military) come from com+panis(lat) and companion(vulg. latn.) They might actually be derived from campus (field. latn)
Posted by gregb1007 at April 23, 2006 11:37 PMFollowing on from Martin's comments, English sailors regularly worked on Dutch ships at least from the 17th century onwards, so there were probably a lot of naval terms that they picked up and later used on English ships.
Posted by Glyn at April 24, 2006 09:03 AM