I thought that Manchu had largely died out even before the Qing dynasty ended. Official documents were still written in Manchu, but most Manchu speakers had shifted to Mandarin by the end of the 19th century.
It hardly matters, but the decline hasn't been quite as abrubt as the article suggests.
Posted by Amira at March 18, 2007 09:54 PMWow! I was in Qiqihar and environs just over a year ago, and visited a small village just like the one described. The scary thing is that the old woman in the video looks just like one I met, in that small village. Could even be her. What are the chances, I ask you?
I was unaware of the situation with Manchu. My informants in the area, whom I asked about local linguistic diversity, said nothing about any such language. They are all proud of the "purity" of their putonghua, in Qiqihar and Harbin.
There's still Sibo, which apparently has 40,000 speakers and is closer to classical Manchu than modern Manchu.
Posted by Paul D at March 18, 2007 11:31 PMManchu was already under pressure from Chinese in the generation before the Qing conquest, from what I understand; its survival until 1911 was about like the survival of Latin in Europe, sans religious aspects.
As for the non-Semitic language, it's probably the same non-Semitic, non-IE language which underlies Linear A -- although it would be marvelous if it turned out to be Greek!
Posted by John Cowan at March 19, 2007 03:00 AMIn his childhood, the last emperor of the (Manchu) Ch'ing dynasty flatly refused to learn Manchu. For him it was a dead language like Latin, except without any literary classics.
"My son is very sensitive. You mustn't punish or rebuke him: if he misbehaves, punish the child sitting next to him, and that will frighten him quite enough". The old joke was real: When the young emperor-to-be misbehaved in class, a cousin of his was punished.
Posted by John Emerson at March 19, 2007 09:58 AMJohn, that's the origin of the phrase "whipping boy" - the poor sod who got punished instead of the heir to the throne.
Posted by Claire at March 19, 2007 10:03 AMCan't find the article now, but the Philistine inscriptions (written with a brush on pottery) use a script which appears to be similar to Cypro-Minoan. There ain't much of it, and I don't see how it can have been read, semitic or otherwise, so the "non-semitic" thing may be a bit of a stretch.
It used to be suggested that Philistine was cognate with πελασγος. Is that still respectable?
Posted by chris y at March 19, 2007 10:24 AMSince the writing has not been deciphered it is impossible to know what language it is in. They are just assuming that it is not Semitic since the writing system is not obviously Semitic and looks like Cypro-Minoan, which most likely was not used to write a Semitic language, though even that is uncertain.
Posted by Bill Poser at March 20, 2007 01:50 AM-- although it would be marvelous if it turned out to be Greek!
Linear A, the Cretan hieroglyphs, and the Phaistos Disk have already turned out to be Greek (the sister to Mycenaean Greek). That was published in the 1980s, but Steven Roger Fischer seems to be very bad at publicity.
That said, I can't see the similarities of Linear A, B, or C to the Philistine writing... ~:-|
Posted by David Marjanovi? at March 20, 2007 10:17 AM